What does HD do wrong? How should they fix it?

sirbOOm · 10-07-2009, 04:04 AM

Other than high prices and annoying dealers, what else does HD do wrong and what would be your suggestion to fix it? I'll start...

(1)
Threatening to void the bike's warranty if "any modifications are made" on paper, yet effectively leaving it to the discretion of the dealer whether or not they will fix XYZ under warranty. It's a well known fact that a great deal of HD riders do the Stage 1 modification and it's an even more well known fact that one of the reasons people buy HDs is for the customization opportunities. There should full and complete coverage at least for the Stage 1 modification and there shouldn't be a need for $800 in race tuner and dyno time to do it when maps are available for most common combinations of parts to flash the ECU. It shouldn't have to be installed by a dealer. There should be a $50-100 "install work check" by an HD mechanic if you install it yourself, which would allow peace of mind for HD and the dealer that the Stage 1 was installed properly by a non-HD mechanic.

(2)
Not backing dealers. One of three dealers over-torqued the spark plug into my rear cylinder. I have receipts that I went there, but cannot blame one dealer or another. Plus, in my case, these dealers were in Europe and my bike is now in the States. They had to torque it out, which ruined the threads. If they can't repair the threads, I need to buy a whole new part! If Harley insists in its warranty literature and general practice by recommendation that we should have our service done at an HD dealer, then they, by default, should back the dealers who make mistakes. And we shouldn't have to religiously go to the same HD dealer in order to realize quality care.

(3)
Doing nothing new with the Sportster's fundamental design, or at least a new small HD model. Sure the Sportster's frame has changed over time, sure it's supposed to be the way it looks, sure the engine has improved, sure they have the Nightster and the Iron and the new sport bike version to switch things up. But I'm talking about building an equally as affordable, small bike with a new frame. Perhaps a board tracker. Perhaps a 600cc air cooled V-Twin engine with equal power as the 883 or even 1200. Perhaps a smaller version of the V-Rod. Perhaps a Sportster Rocker?

(4)
The bagger design. It needs an update. Yes is classic. Yes it's the way a bagger is supposed to look. But HD defined that look, and now it's time HD re-define it. They look the same as they have for 50 years. No wonder people always say bagger Harley's look dated, not classic. I think HD needs to bring in some Italian car designers or renowned and innovative customizers and produce something groundbreaking. Victory did it with the Vision. That wasn't quite it, but at least they did it!

(5)
HOG. I mean... common. No offense, but I really hope HD is letting that phase out. It is very out of favor amongst 20-35 year olds, HD's (should be) primary target. I really don't think people buy a HD wanting to wear cuts anymore.

(6)
HD events. They are ALL the same. Lots of times, the same vendors. All selling stuff at $100 more than if we just bought it from a store on the internet. All have some sort of t-shirt to sell. There's always a southern rock band, a blues band, some annoying female group for the ladies, demo rides, and 1,000 other ways to spend money. But there's little actual facilitation of interaction between HD riders. It's just a crowd of people wanting to be like each other for some reason. There usually aren't free tours of the area and if they are, the tours are hidden in the back and nobody uses them. I was in the Alps, for crying out loud, and nobody was riding... they were hanging out smoking cigs and pointing at different air cleaners on bikes that aren't even customized beyond a couple new parts. Every single event I've been to is the same. Beer. Cigs. Rock bands. Mud. Burn-outs. Old boobs. And a lady that sews patches. HD needs to get modern, needs to have ad-hoc events. Hell, there should be a tent for single riders at these HD events for HD lovers to fall in love! Anything to switch it up... get new.

(7)
Paint options. Common. It's easy to offer more colors even if it costs extra for the customer. Let's have more options.

(8)
Not advertising to racial minorities. What is HD affraid of? The black and hispanic markets are becoming more and more flooded with spendable cash. Plus both markets have creative talent that could inspire further innovation in custom design. Everyone's white on HD commercials. The guy who built the Easy Rider choppers was black, FYI.

(9)
Allowing SK8 to ride HD product and Joker to give people tours. Recipe for disaster.

sk8rod · 10-07-2009, 07:47 AM

(10) they need to prevent numpties buying their product. Either that or an intensive 10 day course on what NOT to do...

mebe this way we can purge the Harley world of lame ass tank lifts

sirbOOm · 10-07-2009, 10:23 AM

I'd argue the tank should have been lifted already.

sk8rod · 10-07-2009, 10:32 AM

i wouldnt accept that argument

FL · 10-07-2009, 10:46 AM

All in all, They must be doing something right

sk8rod · 10-07-2009, 10:58 AM

i think there are too many bagger models

i mean,, a bagger is a bagger right

in the car world, to draw an accurate analogy, a Co like Ford make a ton of car models, but basically they make one van,, they dont go out and produce a miriad of diff layouts of what is basically a utility vehicle...

same with baggers,, you need to carry yer gerbils and berets,, so you have a utility bike.. why dya need so many diff shades of the same freakin eyesore

Ratty · 10-07-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk8rod

i wouldnt accept that argument

Nor me! I have a 2" lift kit that was on for hmm maybe 2 minutes and went back in the bits box coz it looked like ass.

Why do you have a Harley mate? Seems there isn't that much you like about them...

There are tons of higher tech scoots around but the thing is none of them are Harleys and that's enough for me and most of the other guys (& gals) I know that ride them. I recently tried a Ducati that ran circles around any of the 9 Harley's I'd owned prior to it but guess what, I'm back on a Harley again.

Check out Hell's Lovers, the majority aren't white but they ride Harleys with a passion.

I personally think HD has come on in leaps and bounds the last couple of years... they've reduced prices, offered a full refunds on the purchase price of select sportsters if you trade up, improved frame design etc etc.

As FL said "all in all, they must be doing something right" as even in the midst of an economic crisis/recession people are still buying what for most, is just a secondary form of transport

sk8rod · 10-07-2009, 12:14 PM

i think Nick is big into his Bob,, dont confuse the dudes obvious verbosity with a dissin on HD

every couple of days SirBoom has to spew forth a monumental monologue of he resorts to drink and gimps masks again

joker · 10-07-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk8rod

i think there are too many bagger models

i mean,, a bagger is a bagger right

in the car world, to draw an accurate analogy, a Co like Ford make a ton of car models, but basically they make one van,, they dont go out and produce a miriad of diff layouts of what is basically a utility vehicle...

same with baggers,, you need to carry yer gerbils and berets,, so you have a utility bike.. why dya need so many diff shades of the same freakin eyesore

gotta have different models for carryin different accessories dontchaknow?

joker · 10-07-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

Nor me! I have a 2" lift kit that was on for hmm maybe 2 minutes and went back in the bits box coz it looked like ass.

Why do you have a Harley mate? Seems there isn't that much you like about them...

There are tons of higher tech scoots around but the thing is none of them are Harleys and that's enough for me and most of the other guys (& gals) I know that ride them. I recently tried a Ducati that ran circles around any of the 9 Harley's I'd owned prior to it but guess what, I'm back on a Harley again.

Check out Hell's Lovers, the majority aren't white but they ride Harleys with a passion.

I personally think HD has come on in leaps and bounds the last couple of years... they've reduced prices, offered a full refunds on the purchase price of select sportsters if you trade up, improved frame design etc etc.

As FL said "all in all, they must be doing something right" as even in the midst of an economic crisis/recession people are still buying what for most, is just a secondary form of transport

don't heap too much faith onto how they're selling. from 04-08 they traded in the high 50s, peaking around 80. in march 09 they dipped to single digits. closing trade today was 22.5, and it they just got stampeded with put options at around 7x the norm. and they've missed expectations for 4 straight quarters.

Ratty · 10-07-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joker

don't heap too much faith onto how they're selling. from 04-08 they traded in the high 50s, peaking around 80. in march 09 they dipped to single digits. closing trade today was 22.5, and it they just got stampeded with put options at around 7x the norm. and they've missed expectations for 4 straight quarters.

Oh I know its nothing to write home about but given the fact its a luxury item their stocks aren't doing so bad; most of my other investments have taken similar or worse hits in the past 3 years... don't even start me on what's happened to my 401k lol!

joker · 10-07-2009, 07:24 PM

even at 22.5 they're still overpriced based on their earning.
and my 401k has been downgraded to a 236b ...

sirbOOm · 10-08-2009, 03:37 AM

I want to see HD win. Don't get me wrong.

If I charge a premium price, I'm going to slave over my customers. HD doesn't do that IMO. It's structured to shelter itself from it's customer, using HOG and independently-owned dealerships to
do the work for them. A risk that isn't paying off right now, IMO. This starts me off noticing things about the company that need a'fixin'.

HD is one of the last successful icons of American industry, one of the last large hold-outs for union workers and despite me not being a large fan of the UAW, Steelworkers, or Teamsters especially, unions can be given about 80% of the credit for establishing this country's blue collar middle class... the real middle class). They represent America, which has the image of a stale piece of bread right now and Harley's aren't really innovating, redefining, establishing new norms, or embracing change (yes they have heritage to consider... but so does BMW... yet it's designs are decidedly BMW and radical on it's flagships). I can be as critical of something I like as I can be of something I hate. I don't love Harley-Davidson, but I'd like to... they just haven't given me a reason to. I like my bike, but don't love it because of a few things I' unimpressed with. But if I bought a Victory, I'd be unhappy (especially with the gas tank). If I bought a Japanese bike, I'd shoot myself. If I bought a European, I'd be a happy dead person.

Not to mention, guys who ride Harleys are better in bed. I know I am...

Ralph · 05-24-2010, 07:06 PM

If I may add a thing or two to the improvements:
1. Do something to lower the touring line but retain ground clearance. They have improved the seat but added at least 2 inches. They say 27.5" with a 180 lb. rider. I can't believe that, I'm 5'7" and get my feet on the ground. I ride two up 90% of the time and without getting both pegs firmly on mother earth...I'm not buying one. I'm forced to look at the Victory Vision with a 26.5" seat ht. without a rider on board.
2. Put the balanced motor on the touring line. None of us enjoy vibrating hands after a couple of hours.
3. Fix their internal problems with things like... this factory paints plastic and another factory paints metal. I hit a deer. I needed both saddle bags, rear fender and front fender. My dealer received four separate deliveries for four parts. They all came weeks between each. It took 4-5 months to get all parts. To add insult to injury I have an 03 Screamin Eagle Road King (the gold model). All four parts came in with different colors. True story and when the factory rep showed up, he only offered to replace one saddlebag instead of the rest when in fact the saadlebag he replaced matched the frame better. The dealer told me to be happy he normally replaces nothing. This is the kind of chit that pushes people to other brands.

I think Harley has taken giant steps to modernize the brand with state of the art ABS system, much improved frame, fly by wire, exhaust under the frame (they had to do this or gamble on how many people would defect due to leg cooking), the addition of Brembo brakes, etc. but there are some other things they need to do if they want to maintain their faithful following.